Proctor Day 2: A Questionable Ethic
I don't want to spend too much time leading in this topic, so I'll just go there. Suffice it to say, today was a good day and one that yielded a number of questions. Here are a couple of my actual notes that I'll share with you:
-Do these people know how much a lobbyist cost?
-Can we pool resources?
-Including from folks we disagree with?
-Can the lobbyist be a young person?
-Youth Ministry and Prison Ministry (write about the parallels)
et cetera...So you can see that the brain has been working hard. In a social justice conference for black ministers I've had to work through my own definition of Justice, my sincere appreciation yet concern for prophetic tradition, and how an ethics analysis is necessary at every level of ministry (ask me about this the next time you see me). Ethics makes my bones tingle, so you'll understand why I had some questions about a certain part of tonight's service.
Jeremiah Wright Jr. preached tonight and he was awesome; talked about Unity (ethical). BEFORE THIS HOWEVER, there was two hours of service (unethical) which included an offering that lasted about...well...too long. Included in this offering was a call for $20,000 (c. COGIC) which, after little response (I mean, they did ask everyone to give $1,000 yesterday; seminarians could give up to $100. I gave NOTHING jack)...anyway...after little response they announced that they would swipe credit cards.
Credit Cards.
Nobody said much of anything during the service, which got me to wondering: Isn't this ethic at least questionable? Why is nobody storming out of the tent (yes, tent revival) proclaiming their prophetic witness? Doesn't this sound a bit like the Megachurch CEO's that these folks are essentially condemning? Credit cards? $20,000?
Is this questionable? For some I believe NO, it was just fine. But if it is, oh prophets and lovers of justice, why didn't anyone at least ASK THE QUESTION? Why didn't at least ONE of the hundreds of pastors in the room stand up and say "Isn't this questionable?" Were they afraid to stand out and cause distress? Why not just stand up and leave? Or do something, anything but WATCH. That is, if this is problematic.
FORGET theological language, for me this is an issue because of the psychological, emotional, and social manipulation of humans. It's an exercise of the coercive power of the pulpit (the downside of any charismatic tradition). And folks are going on this. I wasn't in the room when this happened, but I SWEAR it's irking me, I'm confused about the room's response, and deep down I know this "prophetic begging" is wrong.
And I never call anything WRONG. My .02. Dive in anywhere
-Do these people know how much a lobbyist cost?
-Can we pool resources?
-Including from folks we disagree with?
-Can the lobbyist be a young person?
-Youth Ministry and Prison Ministry (write about the parallels)
et cetera...So you can see that the brain has been working hard. In a social justice conference for black ministers I've had to work through my own definition of Justice, my sincere appreciation yet concern for prophetic tradition, and how an ethics analysis is necessary at every level of ministry (ask me about this the next time you see me). Ethics makes my bones tingle, so you'll understand why I had some questions about a certain part of tonight's service.
Jeremiah Wright Jr. preached tonight and he was awesome; talked about Unity (ethical). BEFORE THIS HOWEVER, there was two hours of service (unethical) which included an offering that lasted about...well...too long. Included in this offering was a call for $20,000 (c. COGIC) which, after little response (I mean, they did ask everyone to give $1,000 yesterday; seminarians could give up to $100. I gave NOTHING jack)...anyway...after little response they announced that they would swipe credit cards.
Credit Cards.
Nobody said much of anything during the service, which got me to wondering: Isn't this ethic at least questionable? Why is nobody storming out of the tent (yes, tent revival) proclaiming their prophetic witness? Doesn't this sound a bit like the Megachurch CEO's that these folks are essentially condemning? Credit cards? $20,000?
Is this questionable? For some I believe NO, it was just fine. But if it is, oh prophets and lovers of justice, why didn't anyone at least ASK THE QUESTION? Why didn't at least ONE of the hundreds of pastors in the room stand up and say "Isn't this questionable?" Were they afraid to stand out and cause distress? Why not just stand up and leave? Or do something, anything but WATCH. That is, if this is problematic.
FORGET theological language, for me this is an issue because of the psychological, emotional, and social manipulation of humans. It's an exercise of the coercive power of the pulpit (the downside of any charismatic tradition). And folks are going on this. I wasn't in the room when this happened, but I SWEAR it's irking me, I'm confused about the room's response, and deep down I know this "prophetic begging" is wrong.
And I never call anything WRONG. My .02. Dive in anywhere
posted by CaesarKwest at
11:19 PM
7 Comments:
Wow, man. The Church and money (how it's asked for, used, etc.) has always been a very quiet but no doubt strong concern of mine since, well, forever. I have HUGE problem with any church (let alone a conference of the world's most "prominent" preachers) that does not know how to handle the tithes and offering portion of the service properly.
My philosophy on it:
It's not rocket science. People know that money is usually collected at church services...they are not stupid. Announce that it is offering time, affirm that you welcome WHATEVER PEOPLE CAN GIVE and that you love them no less if they have it not to give, pass the bucket/tray/and get back to worshipping God with the rest of the service.
Yes, giving to God of our financial resources is a form of worship as well but begging, suggesting certain amounts, ATMs in the lobby, and anything dealing w/a credit card are (in my opinion) way, way out of line ethically. God does not need money, we do. God does not care how much a "prominent" preacher is charging, we do. Jesus would have laid His Holy Hands on those folks in that tent if he were still around in the flesh today for that ethical/spiritual coonery. Yes, I said it, ethical/spiritual coonery!. By no means am I perfect, but I strive to see every house of God a welcoming place for ALL of His children, not just the ones with C-Notes and American Express.
Ok, I'm getting a little heated over here so I'll leave it at that. I have some very strong opinions/insights about a church locally (that shall remain unnamed) but I'll get into that later if someone really wants to know.
PEACE!!!
Oh Boy! Man, I've been struggling with this issue for so long as I've been branching out from my home church with my wife. I've attended a few churches whose approaches to tithes and offering have really made me SUPER uncomfortable. I have to agree strongly with Grant that a church should be fully capable of gathering its tithes and offerings with tact and without spectacle. Nothing makes me more uncomfortable than feeling like someone is trying to coerce me into giving or make me feel guilty for not giving more than I can. I understand and support fully tithing because it is the way in which churches are able to sustain themselves, but it is crucial, I feel, that churches consistently ENCOURAGE tithing, explaining why its important not only to the church but also as a biblical principle that signals our faith in God.
With tact and without spectacle, as if the service and mission are both greater than this moment. As if God is capable of meeting our needs, we proceed with necessity but without fear of endangerment.
Thanks for both of your inputs.
Absolutely!
This is one of the BIG reasons I love Emmaus. (My church) The dont even take an offering. They're mind you at the end of service that the offering basket is in the back and dont forget to give out your way out. Then for people trying to work on tithing and getting to 10% they encourage you to start and 1% and move up 1 each month until you're there.
On the other hand...
I have been involved in trying to get money from black folks these last few months and it is especially difficult. I can almost see how people are driven to such spectacle....almost. It cost me my job but Im just not going G
churches need money to grow, sure, but as I heard the wise one say:
Nothing begins with money...
I agree with everyone that's contributed so far. I think the credit card thing is ridiculous, but, not even close to surprising. Sadly, I've heard of it before, but never witnessed it first-hand.
What I DO think is acceptable, however, is asking the members of a church to collectively contribute financially toward a specific goal for a specific, Christian, WWJD-esque purpose. And whatever that goal is, it should be defined relative to the current economic condition of the church body.
Two real-life examples:
1) UNACCEPTABLE: A church in the worst-part of the South Side of Chicago with a total of about 30-40 members whose pastor asked for everyone in the church to give at least $2,000 so he and his wife could go oversees to do some ambiguously defined "mission work."
2) ACCEPTABLE: The church I go to in Charlotte (not a "member" yet, so it's technically not MY church - something else I have a HUGE problem with, but that's neither here nor there) asking for the church to collectively raise $1M in scholarship money for people of any age trying to pursue a degree, but are unable for financial reasons. Given the size of this church and the demographic of the average member, this is VERY feasible and, I believe, very worth while, especially since this isn't your average $500-before-your-freshman-year scholarship; they pay for all four years.
Just my thoughts...
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